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List NAMA Zombie Hotels

Earth
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List NAMA Zombie Hotels

According to the Irish news there are about 100 Nama hotels in Ireland. I am looking for a list of them. So far I've not found one. Does anyone have a link to the complete list? I would like to know which hotels in Ireland are zombies.

1. Re: List NAMA Zombie Hotels

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Removed on: 30 January 2011, 13:19
Western Ireland...
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for Southport, Connemara, County Clare, Portumna
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2. Re: List NAMA Zombie Hotels

I think the question is curiosity rather than accommodation and unfortunately many are not small obscure places but larger sometimes better known places offering stupidly low rates and forcing some of the small obscure family hotels out of business.

Edited: 30 January 2011, 10:45
Ventry, Ireland
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3. Re: List NAMA Zombie Hotels

Dub-concierge is not correct. The term Zombie hotels is nothing to do with occupancy at all. Many of the hotels in this group have high occupancy rates.

The term refers to financing. They are hotels built mainly by developers, not hoteliers, using debt finance and availing

of tax breaks. If the hotels close within seven years the tax must be repaid, so they are being kept running by artificially low prices.

The hotels are, in the long term, dead enterprises, but are being kept alive, hence the zombie tag.

The artificially low prices are really hurting the small traditional hotels

Edited: 30 January 2011, 12:17
County Clare...
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for County Clare, Aran Islands, Bunratty, The Burren
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4. Re: List NAMA Zombie Hotels

Soonas is pretty much on the money there Sally.

I can't find a definitive list of Nama hotels - and I have tried....

Anglo Irish Bank (and BOI and AIB) financed many of these hotels; think of mega $ investments into properties; in many cases ...by flamboyant developers.

These hotels have not closed (non of them) or had a receiver appointed (as in the case of the Lynch Group) because their losses are paid for by the Irish taxpayer...they can stay in business (in theory) until ther competition has been wiped out.

Bank of Scotland (non NAMA bank) wants out of Ireland - so it appoints a reciever, and uses maybe a Maldron flag to test drive these hotels to see if they are viable - if they are not able to survive - the reciever closes them.

The Dublin / Wicklow hotels are quite obvious (any recent hotel or hotel that had a multi €100m makeover - thnk Dylan, Shelbourne, Mr JR Nama properties etc:)

There are Absolutely at least four zombie centre hotels Stranded close to my area in Limerick...for sure...a Savvy friend of mine gave me the name of three...all ranked very high here on TA's hotel listing...that had connections to Anglo.

If I can find a reliable piece - I'll link it and pass it along Sally.

Dublin, Ireland
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5. Re: List NAMA Zombie Hotels

There are zombie hotels and zombie hotels. The Shelbourne may have financial problems after a lot of money spent, but is very much a sustaintable hotel as it has been for nearly 200 years. The ones that will not last are large newly built hotels of no real character situated in odd locations.

Cavan
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6. Re: List NAMA Zombie Hotels

Good question, I am sure that a lot of people would like to know if their booking deposits are secure otherwise the whole tourism industry here is floating on ice.

Perhaps therefore it is safe to say that B&B bookings are a safer bet at the moment and we should all be (sad to say) wary of hotels. As pointed out it seems to affect the larger hotels mainly because they are probably deeper in debt, as recently reported the Four Seasons Hotel in Dublin.

One wonders if a credit card company would return a booking deposit if it turns out that a hotel closes or enters recievership, or is this something covered by travel insurance.

County Clare...
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7. Re: List NAMA Zombie Hotels

The Shelbourne hotel has recently had a whopping €155,000,000 written off its balance sheet and it is in mediation its operating Marriott sub (Torriam) - so its not just a question of an overspend....although agreed; it'll hang about - only because the tax payer is (without concensus) now sponsored to foot it's massive post interest losses.

Oddly enough, the Shelbourne's auditors are also NAMA's hotel experts- it really is a small country:)

I don't think it is fair to tarnish the entire hotel industry with the same brush as NAMA hotels (NAMA is effectively the NTMA's reciever) - the non NAMA hotels are victims of this tax driven / bank guaranteed madness!

Anyway - perhaps we need a list of NAMA hotels as Sally has requested...but of course that would mean transparency - and after all; this is Ireland:)

Cavan
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8. Re: List NAMA Zombie Hotels

If it wasn't for the bank guarantee scheme a lot of us would be moving across the border.

Earth
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9. Re: List NAMA Zombie Hotels

Thanks for all your replies. I was not quick enough to read the deleted one. In fact I am wondering how long this post will last before TA takes it down.

As I understand it many of these big, fancy hotels had a lot of investment made in them during the boom. After the boom the banks and NAMA owns them because of defaults. Now they are being subsidized by them. This does not seem fair to all the other hotels who are struggling to fill their rooms and stay alive. By cutting prices and knowing that they will not go out of business any time soon, the NAMA hotels are driving others out of business.

I guess it is tourist beware when booking hotels in Ireland for a while. Personally I'm headed more toward the B&Bs and guest houses. Although I do know of some of them that have ceased operating in this recession.

I have seen a short list of about 6 or 7 hotels. That's all I can find. You would think NAMA would have to list them all since taxpayer money is paying for them.

If this post gets deleted you can PM me if you find a link or list.

Dublin, Ireland
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10. Re: List NAMA Zombie Hotels

Your one-stop-shop for all things NAMA is Jagdip Singh's NAMA Wine Lake:

http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/

The spreadsheet the site maintains of developers, companies and projects known to be in NAMA can be found here:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc…

My understanding is that since NAMA does not publicly disclose the names of its "clients", this list is not definitive and is largely based on press reports.

Edited: 30 January 2011, 20:30